Admitting Our Caucasian Genocide of First Nations: the Anti-Bryan Fischer




INTRODUCTION:


One step toward healing Turtle Island is confessing our crimes as White People, Euros, Europeans, Caucasians, Westerners, North Americans of European Descent, Crackers, Honkies, Hoeles, Whities, Gwai-Loes, Yangren, Laowai, PWT (Poor White Trash), (hypenated)-Canadians/Americans (e.g., Norwegian-Canadians), etc.  





Crimes such as genocide, intentionally releasing diseases that wiped out 80+% of the indigenous peoples of the Americas, rape, kidnapping, forcing children into residential schools, siccing our sick pedophile priests, nuns, and church workers on to these poor kids, etc.  We must repent, which means to make a 180 degree change in our attitudes and actions, and start to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOURS AS OURSELVES, whatever your faith or philosophy may be.



BRYAN FISCHER, WHERE’S THE NEIGHBOUR LOVE?:


However, Western public figures like Bryan Fischer seem to want to make excuses for all the stuff we’ve done.



Who is this Bryan Fischer?  Here is a Bio from his org’s website:


Bryan Fischer is the Director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy at the American Family Association, where he provides expertise on a range of public policy topics.

Described by the New York Times as a “talk-radio natural,” he hosts the “Focal Point” radio program on AFR Talk,which airs live on weekdays from 1-3 p.m. Central on American Family Radio’s nationwide talk network of 145 stations.

A graduate of Stanford University and Dallas Theological Seminary, Bryan pastored in Idaho for 25 years, during which time he served for one session as the chaplain of the Idaho state senate. He founded the Idaho Values Alliance in 2005, and is a co-author of Idaho’s marriage amendment. He has been with AFA since 2009.

In his role as a spokesman for AFA, he has been featured on media outlets such as Fox News, CBS News, NBC, CNN, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the BBC, Russia Today television and the Associated Press, has been a frequent guest on talk radio to discuss cultural and religious issues, and has written op-eds for political websites such as The Hill. He has been married to his bride, Debbie, since 1976, and they have two grown children. 

WHO MURDERED WHOM?: 

No doubt very influential, especially among Right Wingers and neo-conversatives.  A pastor for 25 years?  Hmm, another confirmation of my view that CHRISTIANS MURDERED INDIANS. . .

. . . and can only MAKE LAME-APPS EXCUSES.

 

FISCHER STIRS UP A HORNET’S NEST:

And here is his article which stirred so much controversy last year, taken from a Google Cache (emphasis mine):



Native Americans Morally Disqualified Themselves From the Land

By Bryan Fischer

In all the discussions about the European settlement of the New World, one feature has been conspicuously absent: the role that the superstition, savagery and sexual immorality of native Americans played in making them morally disqualified from sovereign control of American soil.

International legal scholars have always recognized that sovereign control of land is legitimately transferred in at least three ways: settlement, purchase, and conquest. Europeans have to this day a legitimate claim on American soil for all three of those reasons.

They established permanent settlements on the land, moving gradually from east to west, while Indian tribes remained relentlessly nomadic.

Much of the early territory in North American that came into possession of the Europeans came into their possession when the land was purchased from local tribes, Peter Minuit’s purchase of Manhattan being merely the first.

And the Europeans proved superior in battle, taking possession of contested lands through right of conquest. So in all respects, Europeans gained rightful and legal sovereign control of American soil.

But another factor has rarely been discussed, and that is the moral factor.

In the ancient tradition of the Hebrews, God made it clear to Abraham that the land of Canaan was promised to his descendants. But he told Abraham the transfer of land to his heirs could not happen for 400 years, for one simple reason: “[T]he iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete” (Gen. 15:16).

The Amorites, or Canaanite peoples, practiced one moral abomination after another, whether it was incest, adultery, sexual immorality, homosexuality, bestiality or child sacrifice, and God finally said “Enough!”

By the time he brought the nascent nation of Israel to the borders of the land flowing with milk and honey, he had already been patient with the native tribes for 400 years, waiting for them to come to the place of repentance for their socially and spiritually degrading practices.

His patience was not rewarded, and finally the day came when the sin had reached its full measure. The slop bucket was full, and it was time to empty it out. Israel under Joshua was God’s custodian to empty the bucket and start over.

The native American tribes at the time of the European settlement and founding of the United States were, virtually without exception, steeped in the basest forms of superstition, had been guilty of savagery in warfare for hundreds of years, and practiced the most debased forms of sexuality.

One of the complaints listed by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence was that King George “has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.”

The Lewis and Clark journals record the constant warfare between the nomadic Indian tribes on the frontier, and the implacable hostility of the Sioux Indians in particular.

The journals record the morally abhorrent practice of many native American chiefs, who offered their own wives to the Corps of Discovery for their twisted sexual pleasure. (Regrettably, many members of the Corps, Lewis and Clark excepted, took advantage of these offers and contracted numerous and debilitating sexually transmitted diseases as a result.)

The native American tribes ultimately resisted the appeal of Christian Europeans to leave behind their superstition and occult practices for the light of Christianity and civilization. They in the end resisted every attempt to “Christianize the Savages of the Wilderness,” to use George Washington’s phrase.

They rejected Washington’s direct counsel to the Delaware chiefs in 1779, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.”

Thomas Jefferson three times signed legislation appropriating federal tax dollars for the evangelizing of the Native American tribes. It all came to nought, as one tribe after another rejected the offer of spiritual light and advanced civilization.

Missionaries were murdered in cold blood, including Marcus Whitman, who was tomahawked to death in his own house in 1848 by the Cayuse and Umatilla Indians in what became the Oregon Territory.

God explained to the nation of Israel that because of the “abomination(s)” of the indigenous Canaanite tribes, the land had become unclean and “vomited out its inhabitants (Lev. 18:25).”

Is this to say the same holds true for native American tribes today? In many respects, the answer is of course no. But in some senses, the answer is yes. Many of the tribal reservations today remain mired in poverty and alcoholism because many native Americans continue to cling to the darkness of indigenous superstition instead of coming into the light of Christianity and assimilating into Christian culture.

The continued presence of native American superstition was on full display at the memorial service for the victims of the Tucson shooter, when the “invocation” (such as it was) was offered by a native American who sought inspiration from the “Seven Directions,” including “Father Sky” and “Mother Earth,” rather than the God of the Bible.

Sadly, this column will likely generate a firestorm of nuclear proportions among wingers on the left rather than the thoughtful reflection the thesis deserves.

Even worse, the reaction will likely obscure the sobering lesson for today. America in 2011 is as guilty of “abominations” as the native American tribes we replaced. We have the blood of 53 million babies on our hands through abortion. We have normalized sexual immorality, adultery, and homosexuality, all horrors in the eyes of God, and are witnessing a surge in incest, pedophilia and even bestiality in our midst.

God warned the ancient nation of Israel not to lapse into the abominable practices of the native peoples “lest the land vomit you out…as it vomited out the nation that was before you” (Lev. 18:28).

Time eventually ran out for the Canaanites, because they filled up the full measure of their iniquity. Time ran out for the native American tribes for the same reason.

The only question that matters today is this one: how much time does America have left to repent of its superstition, its savagery and its sexual immorality before it is too late, before we will have filled up our own slop bucket and will have morally disqualified ourselves from sovereign control of our own land?

Thomas Jefferson wrote at the time of the Founding, “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.” It is long past time for us once again to tremble for our country.

(Unless otherwise noted, the opinions expressed are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.)

The Moral Liberal contributing editor, Bryan Fischer, is Director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy at the American Family Association, and is the host of the daily ‘Focal Point’ radio talk program on AFR Talk, a division of the American Family Association. ‘Focal Point’ airs live from 1-3 pm Central Time, and is also simulcast on the AFA Channel, which can be seen on the Sky Angel network. Follow Bryan on Twitter. 

Mama mia!!!! Holy Sheist!!!!  Can you believe it???  Fischer is saying:


Europeans = Joshua and the Israeli army, the forces of good


First nations = Canaanites, the forces of evil

Genocide = holy war



Their supposed evil:

– Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence said: ‘known rule of   warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions”.  COME-BACK: Really?  1000s of tribes all did the same thing?  Proof?


– The Lewis and Clark journals: (a) constant warfare between the nomadic Indian tribes on the frontier, and the implacable hostility of the Sioux Indians in particular. (b) morally abhorrent practice of many native American chiefs, who offered their own wives to the Corps of Discovery for their twisted sexual pleasure…[and gave to the explorers] numerous and debilitating sexually transmitted diseases as a result.  COME-BACK: So what!   Different cultures, different customs.  I am not justifying the fact that natives offered their wives to the travellers.  They probably saw this exchange as a means of receiving power and blessing from the explorers:


While Lewis and Clark’s crew likely saw sex as recreational, the tribes viewed it as an exchange of power and skill, with the shared wife acting as a conduit.”   (http://www.nathpo.org/Many_Nations/mn_news12.html).  


And the expedition was basically on one big Sex Tour: 

The evidence makes clear that the members of the Corps of Discovery spent a lot of time thinking about sex, having sex, and treating the consequences of sex. Lewis and Clark expected their men to engage in sexual intercourse with Native women along the way, anticipated that they would contract venereal disease, and loaded their medical cabinet with items for treating syphilis and gonorrhea.” (http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/journal_of_interdisciplinary_history/v038/38.2calloway.html)

– The native American tribes resisted the European Christianity & “Civilisation” in favour of “superstition and occult practices” COME-BACK: Duh!  Take my land.  Kill my people.  Why do I want your stupid religion? And guess what: YOU, Mr. Europe, are more superstitious and occultic than we are!  I mean, who is dumb enough to see a witch on every corner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials.


– They rejected Washington’s direct counsel to the Delaware chiefs in 1779, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.”  COME-BACK: European “arts and ways of life”?  The religion?  Again, if India invaded us, would we be inclined to convert to Hinduism?  



This admonition to believe is at 4:12:

You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.

But look at 2:23 to 3:02.  It’s a threat!!!!

Brothers: Listen well to what I tell you and let it sink deep into your Hearts. We love our friends, and will be faithful to them, as long as they will be faithful to us. We are sure our Good brothers the Delawares will always be so. But we have sworn to take vengeance on our Enemies, and on false friends. The other day, a handful of our young men destroyed the settlement of the Onondagas. They burnt down all their Houses, destroyed their grain and Horses and Cattle, took their Arms away, killed several of their Warriors and brought off many prisoners and obliged the rest to fly into the woods. This is but the beginning of the troubles which those Nations, who have taken up the Hatchet against us, will feel.

Who would want the religion of those threatening to burn down your houses, destroy your food supplies and livestock, kill your warriors, emprison others and cause others to flee as refugees?

– Thomas Jefferson thrice gave out federal tax dollars to convert the Native American tribes, but they all rejected the Europeans’ religion.  COME-BACK: Well, “given [Jefferson’s] principles, Indians had two choices: full assimilation or removal.  Jefferson began raising the specter of Indian removal”.  Who would believe the religion of your invaders?  

– First Nations murdered missionaries, including Marcus Whitman, who was tomahawked to death in his own house in 1848 by the Cayuse and Umatilla Indians in what became the Oregon Territory.  COME-BACK: Marcus Whitman . . . “had helped lead the first “Great Migration” to the West, guiding a wagon train of one thousand pioneers up the Oregon Trail “, which basically led the Cayuse to believe Whitman was aiding the invaders.  Also, these white settlers brought with them the small pox disease, and “Although the Whitmans ministered to both, most of the white children lived while about half of the Cayuse, including nearly all their children, died.” (http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/s_z/whitman.htm)  White militia then destroyed the Cayuse, whose few survivors were forced to join other tribes.



FISCHER RESPONDS TO THE FIRESTORM OF CRITICISM:

And here is the follow-up  (emphasis mine), where he ends up pulling the article, but justifies his stances to the readers:  


February 12, 2011

Column pulled — here’s why

By Bryan Fischer

On Tuesday, I posted a column on the settlement of America by Europeans. The column generated so much intense, vitriolic and profane reaction that it threatened to take on a life of its own, and serve as a distraction to the fundamental mission of AFA, even though when I blog I am speaking only for myself and not for the organization. So we took it down.

But the issue I addressed in the column is an important one, and at some point, a rational discussion and debate about it must be held.

The template that the left has generated is that the displacement of indigenous tribes by European colonists and settlers was irredeemably evil. All the land which now comprises the United States was stolen from its rightful owners. Our very presence on this soil is a guilty, tainted presence.

So the question is whether that template is right, or whether the displacement of indigenous nations was consistent with the laws of nature, nature’s God, and the law of nations and history.

A lot is at stake here. If Americans believe that the entire history of our nation rests on a horribly evil foundation, then there is nothing to be proud of in American history, and our president is correct to identify America as the source of all evil in the world and to make a career out of apologizing for her very existence.

If, however, there is a moral and ethical basis for our displacement of native American tribes, and if our westward expansion and settlement are in fact consistent with the laws of nature, nature’s God, and the law of nations, then Americans have much to be proud of.

This latter view certainly would not compel us to believe that Americans were never guilty of evil themselves. But saying that America was wrong here, or there, is certainly a different thing than saying that the entire American experiment is rooted in evil.

It’s one thing to have folks throw trash in the stream on occasion, because the trash can be fished out and the water’s purity can be restored. It’s quite another thing for the stream to be polluted at its headwaters. If the stream is toxic from its very source, then everyone who drinks from it drinks poison into his soul, and we certainly should not be bottling this water and shipping it overseas to peoples looking to slake their thirst for a model of liberty, freedom, prosperity and security.

So this is a conversation that needs to take place. But based on the reaction to my column of Tuesday, America is not mature enough right now for that robust dialogue to occur. Until it is…

(Unless otherwise noted, the opinions expressed are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.)




FISCHER LAYS OUT THE TRUTH OF THE 2 SIDES, BUT SUPPORTS THE WRONG 1:


Woah!!!!  So basically Fischer states that there are 2 sides:


1. THE LEFT WING’S: 

The entire history of America rests on a horribly evil foundation.  


The entire American experiment is rooted in evil.


The displacement of indigenous tribes by European colonists and settlers was irredeemably evil. 



All the land which now comprises the United States was stolen from its rightful owners. 

The very presence [of Westerners] on this soil is a guilty, tainted presence.


2. THE RIGHT WING’S: 

The displacement of indigenous nations was consistent with the laws of nature, nature’s God, and the law of nations and history.


There is a moral and ethical basis for our displacement of native American tribes, and if our westward expansion 



The westward expansion and settlement [of the Europeans] are in fact consistent with the laws of nature, nature’s God, and the law of nations, then Americans have much to be proud of.


America was wrong here, or there

THE REAL GENIUNE BONA-FIDE TRUTH:

So what’s it going to be?  What is the truth?

1. Mass Murder / Genocide DID occur.

Fischer admits that.


1. This is absolutely NOT what the Sacred Scriptures (Bible) teaches us to do.


The genocides of the Bible’s Old Testament were one shot deals, never to be repeated again:

– Joshua and the Israelites attacking Canaan


Reason: Yahweh gave the various ethnicities of Canaan 400 years to change their ways: “rampant idolatry, incest, adultery, child sacrifice, homosexuality, and bestiality” (http://www.equip.org/articles/killing-the-canaanites/)

This indicates that the sin of the Canaanites was especially horrendous, and that they had been adequately warned of the consequences of their mischief. The biblical record, together with archaeology, reveals in Canaan a degraded society that practiced any number of atrocities in the name of religion. These nations engaged in ritual prostitution, self-mutilation, and human sacrifice. Their societies were filled with incest, idolatry, and violence. As a result of this immorality, God weighed them in the balance and found them wanting.  (http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1224)




And, from this site

First, Canaanite genocide was necessary to prevent Israel from practicing idolatry. In Deuteronomy 7:2, the command is given to utterly destroy the Canaanites and to show them no mercy. Verse 4 explains the rationale for such destruction when it says, “For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods . . . ” . . . These verses make it unmistakably clear that the mere existence of the Canaanites in the land would have enticed the nation into the sin of idolatry thus causing the nation to violate the first two commandments of the Decalogue.  Thus, just as the removal of the nation from Canaan to Egypt during the days of Joseph was necessary to insulate her against the moral pollution from the Canaanites (Gen 45:5-850:20), eradication of the Canaanites would be similarly necessary to preempt national idolatry.

 

Second, God threatened Israel with destruction if she practiced idolatry. This threat would become a reality in spite of the fact that Israel was God’s chosen nation. In Deuteronomy 7:6, Moses reminds Israel of her elect status. However, just two verses earlier, he warned the nation that God would quickly destroy her if she involved herself in Canaanite idolatry (Deut 7:4). 

 

Third, God’s messianic purpose through the nation could not have been accomplished absent Canaanite destruction. God set aside Israel for the purpose of mediating His messianic blessings to the world (Gen 12:349:10). Yet, as explained above, the existence of the Canaanites would have caused the nation to embrace the Canaanite religion ultimately leading to Israel’s destruction. Such destruction would have inhibited God’s messianic purposes for the nation. Thus, as explained by Bush, “A surgeon does not hesitate to remove an arm or a leg, or even a vital organ, when life is at stake. The very existence of Israel-and ultimately the salvation of the world-depended upon [it].” (p.148., LaSor, William, David Hubbard, and Frederic Bush. Old Testament Survey. 2d ed. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1996)

 

– Other articles about this:

http://www.susancanthony.com/resources/dennis/canaan.html
http://www.theology.edu/canaan.htm
http://www.xenos.org/essays/ban
http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.6479725/k.687C/God_and_the_Canaanites.htm

_________________________

FISCHERS FEARS ARE UNFOUNDED: 

Unlike what Fischer said, there was NO CHANCE the First Nations / Native Americans were going to lead the European invaders into idolatry.  

Why not?  Because:

(a) The Europeans ALREADY worshipped idols (money, property, their own culture, their own Pharaseeic religion, etc.),

(b) We shouldn’t have been here in the 1st place because the land ALREADY belonged to the First Nations here, Yahweh had already given it to them.

(c) The First Nations did not even worship idols.  Many tribes were monotheist.  They were in no way polytheistic followers of a variety of “gods’ like the Roman Empire and other pre-Christian European folks.  

For example, near where I live, the Salish people have always believed in one Supreme Creator named .  Here is a definition from the Halkomelen dictionary (site):

The Salish say:
     Here‘s the way to say “Oh Creator, I thank You”: O Chichelh Siyam, tsel ts’íthomé (sounds like “Chell chee thoma”)

_________________________


THE LAND BELONGS TO FIRST NATIONS: 

Now, this land of Turtle Island (North America) absolutely belongs to all the First Nations.  Here’s the proof from Yahweh’s words:

From one man (Adam) he (Yahweh) made every nation of men (and women), that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places (boundaries*) where they should live (Acts 17:26)  *1) ὁροθεσία / ho-ro-the-sē’-ä: a setting of boundaries, laying down limits; a definite limit, bounds

When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons (or “angels”) of God. (Deuteronomy 32:8 ESV) 

We were put here by the Creator, Chichelh Siya:m… (STÓ:LŌ HERITAGE POLICY MANUAL, p. 1)

ANOTHER JOSHUA?: 


– King Saul’s army attacking the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15

Again, a one shot deal.  Some “fundamentalists” teach that it was a great thing and perhaps in the back of their minds, the inference is that the situation could be repeated with Americans against First Nations, Afghanis, Iraqis, etc.  

A quote from this article (emphasis mine):


The story of the Amalekites has been used to justify genocide throughout the ages. According to Pennsylvania State University Professor Philip Jenkins, a contributing editor for the American Conservative, the Puritans used this passage when they wanted to get rid of the Native American tribes. Catholics used it against Protestants, Protestants against Catholics. “In Rwanda in 1994, Hutu preachers invoked King Saul’s memory to justify the total slaughter of their Tutsi neighbors,” writes Jenkins in his 2011 book, Laying Down the Sword: Why We Can’t Ignore the Bible’s Violent Verses (HarperCollins).



CONCLUSION:

Fischer has actually done us all a big favour, although he is totally wrong: 


Fischer has made us realise that . . .

There is ABSOLUTELY NO “moral and ethical basis for [the European] displacement of native American tribes, and of our westward expansion”.

Why?  Because Fischer has improperly interpreted the Sacred Scriptures.  Nobody is Joshua. No one are the Canaanites.  We cannot decide to become the instruments of Yahweh’s vengeance.  Yah’s Kingdom is NOT a democracy.  And He is a merciful God.



Listen, the First Nations are probably cursing the Christian God for all the oppression they received from His so-called people.

You [fake believers ] who boast in the law, do you dishonour God by breaking the law? As Scripture says, “God’s name is cursed among the nations because of you.” (Romans 2:23-24  NIV / God’s Word )

Is this the way it’s supposed to be?

NO . . . 

[TO THE MESSIAH, THE FATHER SAYS:] Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.” (Psalm 2:8 NIV until further indication)

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before Him, . . . (Psalm 22:27)

Psalm 64:9 – All humanity will fear; they will proclaim the works of God and ponder what he has done. (Psalm 64:9)

For from the rising of the sun to its setting, my name will be great among the nations, . . .  (Malachi 1:11 ESV) 



After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.” (Revelation 7:9 NIV)


Cheers, 

Dimitri


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About sleepless in turtle island

Hi, I´m Dimitri. I have lived in Turtle Island for awhile now, so my cultural understanding is slowly improving. Also, I can see things in this place that boggle my mind. Thus this blog...
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2 Responses to Admitting Our Caucasian Genocide of First Nations: the Anti-Bryan Fischer

  1. Michael says:

    Hello. Just to drive home a point: (Nine pictures up from the bottom) the boy in the top right hand corner is flashing a demonic double devil’s head sign with the open mouth of Molech.
    Demonic curses remain in dominion where they were incanted to Earth.

    I am part Shawnee Indian, by the way.

    • Hi, great comment, Michael. Here is my response:
      1. Who knows why this kid made the sign. It has different meanings in various cultures and sub-cultures (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns and http://thedaily23.blogspot.ca/2010/04/is-sign-of-horns-hand-gesture-satanic.html). Perhaps this photo was taken when Heavy Metal was popular, and the kid had seen some rock stars using the gesture.
      2. This kid doesn’t represent anyone but himself. And he’s a kid. I used to do the Gene Simmons of KISS tongue wag all the time as a child. Did I know what I was doing?
      3. I don’t believe in any demonic curses. Only Yahweh the Creator, the Great Spirit, has any power to curse. Otherwise the entire planet and all its inhabitants would be cursed a kazillion times over.
      4. Euro-North-Americans seem to figure that First Nations cultures had some thing for the demonic. Total crap. As far as I know, most FN people I’ve meant or read about were and are monotheistic, and have an aversion to evil spirits. If anything, we Euro-Namericans (I’m 50% Norwegian-25% Scottish-12.5% Danish-12.5% British, 3rd/4th generation North Turtle Islander – Canadian, BTW) have integrated many demonic practices into our Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Liberal, Evangelical, JW, Mormon, etc versions of Christianity. Like? . . . . the office of the priest or pastor, the church building, the denomination, the sermon, the choir, the pulpit, the pews, the steeples, the seminaries, etc. See Barna and Viola’s Pagan Christianity: http://www.amazon.ca/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/141431485X and http://www.paganchristianity.org/. Cheers, Dimitri

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